Waterway Failures

[Daywalker]

I keep seeing this stories about waterway failures and they talk about pinning. My knowledge of the subject is limited, we use actual ladder pipes with the hose and such.

So whats the deal with "pinning" the waterway? I hear rescue and use positions thrown around, are you able to bring the nozzle in from the tip of the ladder or something?

[jester1965]

Does this topic involve ladder trucks? We don't have one and I'm not familiar with the terminology if it is. Well, not familiar with the terminology even if it isn't.

[Daywalker]

yes it is about ladder trucks. I guess trucks with the pre-piped elevated master streams have had several catastrophic failures recently, one about a year ago killed someone. The water way which leads to the nozzle can break away or shoot off. Apparently, some of these devices are "pinned" in place and have different positions depending on what the user wants to do.


I don't really know about the particulars of this since the only ladder pipes we use are the "old school" ladder pipes that you manually set up with an actually "ladder pipe" (like a special monitor that locks onto the rungs" and a special ladder hose that we hose strap to the aerial. So I'm not sure how these fancy pre-piped jobs work or why they fail.

[fireball]

related to your thread,i post this link on firescue1.com:

http://www.cdc.gov/niosh/fire/reports/face200812.html

this is a report on niosh.there are many pics to explain.

[FloridaFireLt.]

I posted an answer to your query yesterday but for some reason it didnt show up so I'll try again.

When they talk about "pinning" the nozzle what they are refering to is the newer ladder trucks and aerial devices that are equiped with pre-piped waterways and nozzles. Most have a feature that allows them to be configured for either "elevated stream" operations or "rescue" operations. In the elevated stream mode the nozzle assembly is fixed to the tip of the ladder. In the rescue mode the nozzle is fixed to the fly section just below the last section (tip section). Many models have a locking pin that has to be placed in one of the two positions to keep the nozzle assembly fixed in the selected position. What has happened on occasion is that for whatever reason, the locking pin has not been properly seated and when the waterway is charged with water the nozzle assembly shoots off the ladder with a great deal of force becoming a flying missle hazard.
Newer ladders and aerial devices that are pre-piped are now being equiped with a lever instead of a pin and that lever has can only be positioned in one of the two modes thereby eliminating the possibility of it being improperly seated or missing altogether.

I like the idea of pre-piped waterways on ladders and aerial devices. It reduces the time taken to put an elevated stream into service by eliminating the need to rig the ladder with playpipe, hose and control lanyards at the scene. It keeps the ladderway clear of hose and nozzles so climbing is easier
and above all, it keeps firefighters off the ladder during elevated stream operation. There is very little if any reason for firefighters to be positioned on the ladder while it's being used for elevated stream operations. The stream can be positioned quite efficiently by the operator at the base of the ladder. The only exception may be once the fire is knocked down and brought under control and the need to look for hotspots rises.

Hope that helps answer your question Daywalker.

[Daywalker]

yea that answers it perfectly thanks.


Like I said, we use the old school method with the hose, ladder pipe, and the control cables, so this new pre-pipped stuff is all foreign.

[jester1965]

Our mutual aid department's ladder truck has a "channel" with a 2 1/2 inch hose lay setup which needs to be connected before flowing to the nozzle on the end. Doesn't sound like the setup you guys are talking about. Any time we've worked from it there seems to be handlines used from it and not the pre-connect.